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Click to visit VeggieCooking.com 21 August 2008 Interview of Professor Francis Boyle by Alex Jones on the anthrax attacks of 2001 (partial rush transcript)

29 November 2011
Pam Rotella

This is an old 21 August 2008 (Thursday) interview of Dr. Francis A. Boyle on the Alex Jones Show (InfoWars.com). (For those with the podcast from 8/21/08, this interview starts 3 hours, 14 minutes into the show.) I'm flashing back to it because he reminds us of how the "Patriot" Act was passed -- in the midst of anthrax attacks on Congress which were clearly an inside job from the Executive branch (Bush et al).

The "Patriot" Act includes many provisions not related to national security. For example, one prevents people (read: parents) from suing vaccine manufacturers (read: whose kids were brain-damaged by mercury in the vaccines). This controversial new law was passed as George W. Bush's father had heavy financial investments in the pharmaceutical industry.

I haven't transcribed the last portion of the interview, where Professor Boyle talks about how neocons are intellectually neo-Nazis. However, I'm posting a partial transcript of the show in order to give my readers a perspective on the old anthrax attacks of 2001 from a bioweapons expert.

(FLASHBACK) Professor Francis Boyle on Alex Jones show - anthrax attacks were an inside job, and used to pass the "Patriot" Act, part 1 of 6 (video)

Francis Boyle interview, part 2 of 6
Francis Boyle interview, part 3 of 6
Francis Boyle interview, part 4 of 6
Francis Boyle interview, part 5 of 6
Francis Boyle interview, part 6 of 6

ALEX JONES: OK, for the next 45 minutes, I am very honored -- we're going to skip a few of the breaks for PrisonPlanet.tv viewers and InfoWars.com stream listeners, because this is too important information in the time we have left. If I went over Professor Boyle's bio it would take hours. But he's written international bioweapons conventions. He's been a top-level analyst for the Federal government in that capacity. It just goes on and on with his lengthy bio.

And last time he was on with us, I guess about a year and a half ago, an article that Steve Watson wrote about it was published in scores of newspapers and one of the largest magazines in the country, and some foreign newspapers as well, dealing with the fact that he was saying the anthrax was an inside job. Now, I've got my mother-in-law, that doesn't even believe my show, calling up thinking the government did it. She'll be put on the list now, I'm sure.

Now, I've got -- just all over, everyone saying it's complete bull. Mainstream media saying it's complete bull. You look at the whole story -- they grab this other patsy, put him in the hospital, murder him clearly -- then say that he was always who they knew did it while they persecuted Steven Hatfill. We have this other guy -- Dr. Philip Zack -- breaking into the bioweapons lab when he didn't even work there, not getting in trouble. Still at another bioweapons lab.

It's the most weaponized US anthrax ever seen. The FBI destroys the original samples so that it can't be proven, and so that they can claim that this Dr. Ivins cooked it up in his bathtub or in a basement. Just the miniaturization process takes over a hundred million dollars worth of equipment, it's the size of a gymnasium. It just goes on and on.

But we have a bioweapons expert on with us. Sir, I know you don't like talking about yourself but we're about to break. Will you give us some of your background, though, and your expertise on this, and your bold stance a year and a half ago that's now being echoed by people at Fort Detrick saying Ivins couldn't have done this, and you know, as the plot really thickens, and as their cover-up implodes.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right, well, the day the technology on the Daschle letter was revealed to the New York Times, I immediately called Marion "Spike" Bowman, who is a high-level counterintelligence official at the FBI, and in fact it turns out was also the person who spiked the FBI's warrant for the Moussaoui computer. But that's another issue.

ALEX JONES: But before we go, tell folks who you are.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, I'm getting to that. He knew me because I had drafted the United States Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 that was passed unanimously by both houses of the United States Congress, and signed into law by President Bush, Sr. That legislation was the U.S. domestic implementing legislation for the biological weapons convention, and Mr. Bowman and I had met each other at a terrorism conference at the University of Michigan Law School.

In any event, I told Mr. Bowman -- this was in October of 2001 -- that the only people who had the capability to do this would be those individuals working at either United States government labs, or private contractors, and things of this nature. And that it obviously seemed to me this was US government-related.

He took the information down, and said he would pass it on to the appropriate people handling the investigation. I hung up. And then it occurred to me that I had a complete list of who all these people were, and what these labs were, going back to my work on getting the legislation through.

ALEX JONES: Absolutely. We're going to skip this break for stations out there, and then just come right back into the main segment in four minutes with our guest, a really top bioweapons expert -- helped write some of the international treaties for the United States -- Francis A. Boyle. And we are continuing skipping this break.

(bumper music)

OK, Mr. Boyle, continue.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Oh, sure. So, I called him back and I said, "You know, I have a complete list here of when the program was in the public record, and here's some of the names and some of the facilities." And I went through not all of it, but I went down the list, and I told him where he could get this list. And then I said that "It has already been reported this summer that the CIA was engaged in anthrax work as well -- you could get the CIA list from the CIA."

And then, you know, we talked some more. And he said, "Well, you know the FBI was working with Fort Detrick." And I said, "Well, Fort Detrick could very well be the problem here, that you had someone like a Timothy McVeigh who was once on the reservation and now off the reservation."

So he said again he would communicate this to the people in charge of the investigation.

ALEX JONES: Instead they ran around everywhere saying that it was somebody in a bathtub or in a bucket making it, and now we know the White House ordered Robert Mueller to say that it was Iraq, that it was al-Qaeda, and boy that really shows them being complicit, but please continue.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, it was even worse than that, Alex, in that at that point, you know, I had assumed good faith on the part of the FBI in this investigation. Because, you know, it had killed several people, it had shut down the United States Congress, which I think was probably the greatest political crime ever inflicted on our republic in its history. But then I read that the FBI had authorized the destruction of the U.S. government's Ames strain collection in Ames, Iowa. Ames strain was the strain responsible for US biowarfare programs. Everyone knew that. And indeed, that's all now been confirmed -- you can read it in today's New York Times, there's a story right in there.

ALEX JONES: And of course, we all said this six and a half years ago, but we're still kooks.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right. So, when I read the FBI had destroyed the entire Ames strain collection in Ames, Iowa, I knew a cover-up was under way. Because you could have taken -- the FBI, legitimate scientific researchers, could have taken that collection and used it to genetically reconstruct precisely where and when and how the weapon came from. And they destroyed it. This was clearly a Federal crime in its own right, destruction of justice (sic). So it was obvious that evidence all should have been preserved as evidence of a crime. I used to teach criminal law here, so it was obvious they were covering up, and covering up ever since.

Indeed, if you read today's New York Times, they also come up with this statement -- they admit that Ivins submitted a culture to them, which they promptly destroyed. So there you have a -- yet again -- another instance of destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice by the FBI.

ALEX JONES: As hurriedly as they could. OK, we're going to come back in with some stations joining us to continue right now with our guest.

(bumper music)

ALEX JONES: Francis Boyle is a Professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He's a graduate of the University of Chicago and Harvard Law School. He's also issued a Ph.D. of political science from Harvard University. And he has just had a bio that's too long to go over, but he's written international bioweapons conventions for the Federal government, advised Congress, written some of the biggest publications out there. The list just goes on and on. He is currently a member of the Nobel Prize for Governor George H. Ryan Committee.

OK, continuing sir, with the FBI covering up this evidence, covering up the original Ames strain, destroying them. Then they find other samples that other people had, that they gave them -- they destroy it immediately. You're saying crimes, obstruction of justice. Why are they covering it up? Well then, we have the White House on Cipro, the anthrax-fighting antibiotic, weeks before the anthrax letters show up -- admitting that, arrogantly. We have political enemies of the Bushes getting it. They use it as a smokescreen to pass the Patriot Act. They're pressuring the FBI -- now public -- ordering them to say al-Qaeda/al CIA-duh did it.

I mean, this is the most open-and-shut case ever for the Federal government -- criminal elements of it -- launching the anthrax attack. Then you have the cover-up, the patsies. I mean, break that down for us.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Yeah, I think it's all clear. On the first weekend in November, I went out to Harvard where I was running a workshop on biological weapons. And I publicly stated at the time that in my opinion, my professional opinion, it was either elements of the United States government itself or contractors working for the United States government that was behind the anthrax attack. And my colleague at the time, Professor Jonathan King of MIT, who's a microbiologist who runs their electron microscope lab, independently said the same thing I did. And I gave interviews on Fox and the BBC and Pacifica, saying this the first week in November.

So it's been very clear, and the reason is that for the FBI cover-up, it would lead back to a secret, covert, illegal, and CRIMINAL offensive biological weapons program involving anthrax. And I say it's criminal because I was the person who drafted the statute making it a crime. And that's what's going on here. That's why all the lying and covering it up all along.

And they're still doing it today. If you read the investigation, the press conference they heard earlier this week by the FBI, it does not add up at all. If you read the article in today's New York Times, it doesn't add up.

Indeed, it appears from today's New York Times (that) the FBI, for example, then set the investigation up by scientists in such a way that no one knew exactly what they were doing and could not communicate with anyone else, and only communicated with the FBI, and only looked at samples provided to them by the FBI, and had to take on good faith from the FBI what the samples were. So, you have the case where the FBI completely controlled, dominated the scientific investigation, including the timing.

ALEX JONES: Well, Dr. Boyle, I want to go through that, and as best as we can piece together who exactly did it and why they did it. But when the mainline public on the street at coffee shops are saying, "Can you believe the government launched the anthrax attack?" They're in trouble. I mean the word's out the White House was on the drug that fights it. The word's out it went to their enemies. The word's out they set the last guy up.

I mean, I think we have a crisis of confidence here. Do you think the FBI knows just how ridiculous they look right now?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well Alex, I think the important issue to realize now is this. You know, the FBI has been lying and covering up on this at least since the time I called Bowman.

But, there is today in existence, a stockpile of super-weapons-grade anthrax that is under the control of the original perpetrators of the anthrax attacks of October 2001. And that stockpile can and will be used again when their masters decide that it would be politically convenient to scare and terrorize the American people.

ALEX JONES: All right, we're going to skip this break, too. Hold on, I just want to let stations to know that. InfoWars.com listeners we're going to continue. Everybody else, we'll be back in 3 minutes. Gotta tune over to infowars.com. Here we go with Dr. Francis Boyle.

(bumper music)

OK, doc, I mean that's the point I keep making. If they carried out the attacks -- and all the evidence, I mean it's 100% they did it, from motive, to means, to the evidence, to the witnesses, to the Cipro. All of it -- it's ridiculous.

A.) What did they think they were doing, because they haven't gotten away with it. I mean, this is really getting them, more than even 9/11. And then, B.) getting into what you just mentioned -- yes, they're still in power, they're still going. They could aerosolize this and say al-Qaeda did it and launch an attack on Iran.

Please continue.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, they could launch another attack on us! And including on Congress, the judiciary, the media. You know, the media is the fourth estate.

ALEX JONES: Do you think this was a beta test? Do you think this was a beta test?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Pardon me?

ALEX JONES: Do you think this was a beta test, then?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: What do you mean by a "beta test?"

ALEX JONES: The first anthrax attack was a beta test to see what the media would do, how Congress would respond?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, I believe the first anthrax attack was designed to ram through the Patriot Act, because Senator Daschle and Senator Leahy were holding it up. And once the anthrax occurred, the attacks occurred, it rammed right through.

Indeed, on the renewal of the USA Patriot Act, Senator Feingold was holding it up, and all of a sudden out of nowhere some white powdered substance appeared at the -- I think one of the Senate office buildings.

ALEX JONES: Yeah, I remember.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: There was an anthrax scare. And then, all of a sudden the renewal of the Patriot Act went through. Now that was not real anthrax. It didn't have to be real anthrax this time.

ALEX JONES: It's a reminder.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Just for your question on the media, I think the culprits here wanted to send a message to the news media as well -- that if you really cover this story, you risk your lives.

ALEX JONES: No, that's it. And then the people that did the story on the Bush daughters falling down drunk in Austin -- the editor gets the first letter. I mean, so this is a thinly veiled threat to everyone. So I guess the perpetrators, that's why Congress goes along with the wars and goes along with all of it. Because I've talked to people in Congress who privately are like "Yeah, yeah, we know what happened." Do you agree that it's just an open mafia message, then, is what you're saying? And that Congress knows! I mean, they know who did it!

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: I think -- you know, people in Congress, I stay in touch with them, I've sent them my materials. You know, they're smart, intelligent people. I think they know who was responsible for this. I don't think they believe the cock-and-bull FBI explanation. But of course they're afraid! Their lives are on the line! I think what we have to do now is insist on a full-scale Congressional investigation, not some type of Presidential Commission cover-up along the lines of the 9/11 report.

ALEX JONES: But then the neocons will probably just mail a hundred letters of anthrax. I guess the whole nation is kind of held hostage. We're going to come back to the full audience. Recap that, and get into your idea, your plan to deal with this, and then cover any other evidence that backs up what you're saying. With our guest, here we go.

(bumper music)

Dr. Francis Boyle, one of the former top bioweapons experts for the Federal government, helped write some of the major bioweapons conventions internationally for the United States. Day one, he tried to help with the investigation, and found out who was really behind it. These are hard-core killers. And they'll do anything to scare you into submission. After their little event they pulled off on 9/11, they weren't done. They launched their anthrax attack.

And they did their "Dark Winter" scenario a few years before that, Congressionally-funded drill. A massive anthrax spraying in Texas and Oklahoma, and martial law being declared. And you better believe, ladies and gentleman, they've got private contractors ready to spray anthrax on your cities, and then they'll grab some guy with a beard and put him on TV and say he did it, it might even be a hologram. I mean, these guys -- there's no end to what they will do. And Dr. Boyle is our guest.

During the last segment, you had just called for a Congressional investigation, the country's being held hostage by the real terrorist.

You've got the floor, I'd like you to talk more about that and then go back into evidence because it's so voluminous. Anything else you'd like to talk about.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right. We need hearings along the lines of what we had in the Watergate hearings under President Nixon, where we have open public hearings by a joint committee of Congress, because this attack was designed to shut Congress down, which it did. It succeeded, to the best of my knowledge, the first time in the history of our republic, where Congress was actually shut down and rendered inoperative. The House went out of business. The Senate said it would stay in session, but with the House out of business, you can't do business. So this is a political crime of the first magnitude. The Supreme Court as well also shut down, and the media were attacked, our fourth estate. Of course, the presidency and the executive branch was not attacked. I leave that to you to figure it out, but we do know the White House was on Cipro.

So, that's really what we need. And maybe if there are open public hearings by Congress, you know, people put under oath with subpoena power, members of Congress then might feel some protection from further threats by the people currently under control of the anthrax.

You also have to tie into this the large numbers of dead microbiologists that have appeared since around the summer before these events, when the New York Times revealed the existence of the covert anthrax weapons programs run by the CIA and Battelle. And that too is in the public record. This keeps going -- Ivins is only the latest dead microbiologist. So you are correct -- these culprits are playing for keeps, they are prepared to kill people, they've tried to kill people, I think they have killed people.

ALEX JONES: Well, there's no doubt under PDD-51, the Continuity of Government system has taken over the government. Congress knows they were hit by a biological attack from the Executive branch and the shadow government, controlled by foreign agencies -- foreign intelligence operations, British and Israeli predominantly. And they have bullied the media and the Congress into full submission. They are hopping mad at the Russians for not submitting. God knows what they'll pull on them now. And we are completely controlled by megalomaniacs who have limitless will, dark will to do God-knows-what. Dr. Boyle, I can't imagine a more nightmare scenario, and it's so transparent, because they want it to be transparent, don't they?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, I think it's transparent to people who are really following what's going on, and adding it up. But I don't think for the vast majority of the American people. I do think you are correct in your analysis that the Presidential Doctrine for the Continuity of Government was put into effect on September 11th, and it's still in operation today. And that we do have, in fact, this secret government that, you know, is really running things behind the scenes. Probably Cheney is in charge of it. And so there are really two governments out there, and that can account for a lot of anomalies, for example what happened at the Minot Air Force Base with the nuclear cruise missiles. That decision to deploy those nuclear cruise missiles had to come directly from a chain of command -- it was not a mistake. And with the continuity of government, then, there are now two chains of command. So I think you can add up a lot of things by realizing that there's the open government, and then there's the C.O.G. (Continuity of Government) in operation. Right.

ALEX JONES: Professor Boyle, a lot of people that don't understand history, or the way subterfuge works, they wonder why you're alive, why I'm alive, why so many others are alive if this is all true. And I would just say, it's because they don't want to validate what we've said, they don't want to underline our words, they don't want to highlight what we've said and done. But I do feel the wings of death flapping about. I've been threatened, I've had all sorts of other stuff happen. A lot of other people have been killed, so it's not a joke to me. I just thank my lucky stars, thank God every day I'm still here. But I mean, what's your take on why other whistle blowers and other prominent people are still alive? If these guys are such murderers and such killers, why they haven't come after us?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, Dr. Ivins is not alive! He joins the growing list of microbiologists who are now dead! I can't recall the last time I looked at that list, but it was somewhere in the area of 15 - 20 microbiologists, you know, have DIED.

ALEX JONES: It's a lot more than that.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Yeah, maybe twenty or something like that.

ALEX JONES: Well, if you look at it globally -- yeah, it's like twenty in the U.S., being shot in the back of the head, being tortured to death, being drowned. It's hundreds worldwide.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right. So, they are I think disposing of people who directly know what's going on. Senator Wellstone disappeared too. So, you know, I take it the reason others are around is that they don't really care. They have all the leaders of power there --

ALEX JONES: No no, they're actually glad we're here saying they control the Congress and murder whoever they want. They enjoy it. And all the big gorillas that work in Army Intelligence think it's real funny. They love their cocaine money, they love their houses in Maui, they love butchering this country wide open. Good job, guys. Please continue, Dr. Boyle.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: You know, I don't think they think we're very effective one way or the other. Otherwise, they would take us out, sure.

ALEX JONES: And they're just looting everything. And this is only one little area of crimes they're committing. I mean, I look at it Doctor -- they are just raping the country, the world, end-to-end. And then -- I just can't believe we've gone this bad. Do you ever pinch yourself when you're seeing these type of things happen?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, you know, it could be the twilight of the American Republic. I hate to say that. You know, I've been a lawyer since January 10, 1977 -- taking an oath to uphold the Constitutional laws of the United States -- as my father was before me. And it could be we're at the end of the line here for democracy in America.

ALEX JONES: That's right, you're a top Constitutional Law scholar as well. We just can't cover all of your illustrious background. Let's go over more of the evidence, more areas with the curious case of Dr. Ivins. I mean, the media, you notice -- it was so hard to find that he died in government custody. And then supposedly he gets these pills while locked up, when he was about to be released. And then this "Doctor" that said he was crazy, and said all these things, turns out is a literal PCP-head, who isn't even a Doctor, and is some kind of stoolie bird. I mean, it's just getting shoddier and shoddier.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: It is. I mean, if you just read any of the accounts. I mean, now, surprisingly, you even have people in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal -- experts, microbiologists, former biowarfare people -- saying they don't believe Ivins did it. That's correct. That's how flimsy the cover-up has become. Again, just read today's New York Times. The more facts come out, the harder it comes to explain any of these things. I really don't know what to say.

ALEX JONES: Why do you think they rushed out and grabbed Ivins and killed him, and then made the ridiculous story up about "Oh, he's been our main suspect for four years," when just a year ago they were saying the only suspect was Hatfill. I mean, is that a total contempt for the public's memory, or what is that?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Yeah, I think so. I don't know if Ivins was killed one way or the other.

ALEX JONES: Oh, man! Yeah. (laughs)

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: But, you know, they first blamed it on Hatfill, knowing he wasn't responsible, but that could stall and delay everything for a long time, and see if they could get Hatfill to crack up and he didn't. You know, he fought back. Ivins -- so then they moved to him, and you know they got him to crack up, and either he was off by himself, or -- you know, we still don't know the circumstances one way or another. So now they have a dead man, and dead men tell no tales. So they just pin it on a dead man, the dead microbiologist.

ALEX JONES: Yeah, it's easy, they have a dead defendant. Talking about the FBI, I mean they've always been hooked in with the Mafia since their conception during prohibition, being paid off. From their zenith, or really birth I should say, from their genesis they have been mobsters. Now, I mean, I see the FBI out on the streets and places. They are really scary people. I mean, do you think the average FBI agent really understands they're working for basically a Gestapo organization?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Actually, Mr. (M. Wesley) Swearingen, who had been an FBI agent and retired and was decorated, wrote a book on the FBI and called it the American Gestapo, repeatedly. You know, he was a veteran FBI agent. I think that is correct.

The last time, you know, we discussed the matter, I think I told you that two FBI agents -- well, an agent for the FBI, and another for the FBI/CIA joint terrorism task force -- showed up at my office, interrogated me for an hour, tried to get me to become an informant on my Arab and Muslim clients which would have violated their Constitutional rights (and) my ethical obligations as an attorney. Of course I refused to become an informant for the FBI.

But I did tell them that I was trying to cooperate with the FBI on the anthrax investigation, and told them of, you know, my phone calls there to Mr. Bowman to try to do something on the anthrax investigation. And then the FBI, CIA went out and put me on all the United States government's terrorist watch lists! Every one of them! My lawyer said there's five or six of them, as far as he could figure out, I'm on all of them.

So, that gives you a pretty good idea of what's going on here -- that one guy trying to help unravel the anthrax investigation gets put on the terrorist watch lists!

ALEX JONES: Well, you know I know it's all about power and who wins, but there's no doubt that I'm trying to defend this country -- what's left of it. So are you.

And, you know, guys -- we don't expect you to quit the FBI or even stand up for the country. But at least you can passively not join the evil. I mean, is it that much fun to destroy America? I mean, I don't understand the ENJOYMENT.

Where do they find these people?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, we have to remember, there were some good, solid FBI people there, up in Minneapolis, trying to get that warrant into --

ALEX JONES: But notice, they're always off in a field office. I understand it's compartmentalized, yeah.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right. But they tried -- those in the field -- Rowley and the rest of them, tried very hard to get that warrant into Moussaoui's computer. That very well could have unraveled 9/11. And that was killed by Marion "Spike" Bowman, who was the same guy I was dealing with in good faith.

ALEX JONES: And then, by the way, the FBI agents that blocked the anthrax and the 9/11 investigation -- even before -- they all got record cash bonuses. And those that tried to stop the attacks -- they got demoted.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right, the people who were in charge of the cover-ups on both 9/11 and the anthrax have all been promoted, which indicates they've done what their masters wanted them to do. And I think the reason why -- you know, eventually, if we can unravel who is behind the anthrax attacks, we're going to find out who really was behind 9/11. And that's why they're so desperate to cover everything up and lie about it.

ALEX JONES: I know you have a lot of gravitas sir, and so you like to very be careful about what you say. But do you think a person of interest (who) needs to be looked at is this Philip Zack person, or is he another red herring?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: I really don't know much about Mr. Zack, just what I've read in the public record.

But certainly at the top of everyone's list should be Mr. Patrick (William C. Patrick III), who did this type of work for the CIA, and Ken Alibek (Alibekov), who did this type of work for the Soviet Union. Indeed, Alibek has made statements in the public that are inconsistent and simply not true. Alibek was brought over here by the CIA, so he's on their payroll. And Patrick was on the payroll. So I would, you know, certainly identify them as the top of the list.

ALEX JONES: That's right, Alibek wrote about and was over an "accidental" release, remember, in the Soviet Union on that --

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Sverdlovsk, right.

ALEX JONES: Was it the Kamchatka peninsula?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Right. Well no, Sverdlovsk, which is in Central Russia.

ALEX JONES: But what was the other one?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: But you have to understand that it's just not Fort Detrick here that could have done this. The culture from what I can see came from Fort Detrick. But again, assuming any of this information coming out is correct, 25% of it came from Fort Detrick and 75% of it came from the Dugway Proving Ground run by the Army, and with the CIA and Battelle working there.

So my guess is that the culture itself came from Fort Detrick, and then it was shipped out to Dugway to be weaponized. That is, to turn it into a trillion spores per gram, the aerosolization, the adding on the silica covering which involved nanotechnology, and then the electrostatic charges.

ALEX JONES: How ridiculous is it --

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: So I believe it was weaponized at Dugway. I don't believe it was weaponized at Fort Detrick per se. So we have a team of people here, working on this. It's not simply a question of one, or two, or three people.

ALEX JONES: And that's why we have all these big, top bioweapons scientists saying, "You're claiming that Ivins was able to make this in his basement? That he was able to get something, and then weaponize it?" You know, they're saying that's ridiculous, because they know what it takes, don't they?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Sure, it's completely preposterous. Even Mr. Spertzel, who used to head up Fort Detrick said it can't be done. So you know, I think most of these scientists involved in the investigation, like me, probably assumed the FBI was dealing with them in good faith. But that simply isn't the case.

ALEX JONES: Has this changed your view of the world -- you know, working on this case, seeing this, and seeing how the Federal government's been behaving?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: No, not really. You know, I'm 58 years old. I've seen -- (laughs). You know, going back to the Kennedy assassination -- the two Kennedy assassinations, and the King assassination. This doesn't surprise me at all.

ALEX JONES: I was just saying, because you said that you thought the FBI would do something. But I guess you weren't thinking they were involved. We're going to skip this break, too with our guest. We'll be back in the final segment. The only place to listen to the behind-the-scenes is the Infowars.com stream. You've got to go over to the site and click on that stream, folks.

(bumper music)

ALEX JONES: OK, Dr. Boyle, this has been an amazing interview. And I just want you in the next 6, 7 minutes or so to cover any other key points, any other areas, any web sites you want to plug. You've got the floor.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, I have a book on the subject called "Biowarfare and Terrorism" -- Clarity Press -- which you can read, that sets out the case or the basic points that I'm making here today. Everything I'm saying in there has been confirmed by the latest revelations.

In addition, since that book went to press, I have reviewed the Pentagon's report to Congress on their chemical and biological warfare programs. And it's very clear -- they are engaged in the development and use of anthrax as a weapon of warfare. It is also clear if you read through there, the Pentagon in this biowarfare programs is now testing -- open-air testing, which is something that Congress passed a statute to prohibit, and yet there was put in there a Presidential waiver.

So we have to understand the stockpile of this super-weapons grade anthrax is still there, probably at Dugway, or perhaps Battelle in Ohio, and waiting to be used again when the Pentagon and the CIA decide they want to terrorize the American people.

Cheney has said if there's another terrorist attack, he'll blame it on Iran. There's an election coming up that, you know, they're going to want to win for McCain, who's in the pocket of the neoconservatives currently running the government, and the continuity of government. So there are a variety of occasions coming up for these people to use this anthrax and panic the American people, either towards war, towards a police state, or towards electing the Presidential candidate they want.

ALEX JONES: Amazing. Absolutely amazing. We've got a few stations that are about to join us when we come back out of this segment. So we're going to plug the book again. I want everybody out there to get it, because this is life and death. I mean, it is a military culture to sacrifice pawns, and they have just gotten way too fast and loose. It's not enough to kill a million, two Iraqis. It's not enough to bomb Serbia into the stone age, or DU (depleted uranium).

You know, they see us as absolute cattle, folks, and this sick culture has got to be stopped. We're coming back live right now.

(bumper music)

ALEX JONES: Dr. Francis Boyle has a book out on the anthrax attacks -- a scholarly, detailed book that everyone needs to get, and get out to their friends and family. This is life and death. If we don't expose these people, they are going to use terror attacks to completely overthrow the country and have a continuity of government system that even dominates Congress. Hell, Bush has even taken authority away from Homeland Security to himself. It's unprecedented dark times, and I don't take pleasure fighting these people. I know, I mean it is -- I don't even have fear. I just know -- man, this is serious, I don't like messing with these people, but I have to. You can't give into them. And Dr. Boyle, we just commend you.

The old, 5,000-year-old system of sacrificing pawns, going back to being invented in India. Generals will sacrifice a thousand, ten thousand, twenty thousand troops to draw an enemy in over a ridge, thinking it's a larger force, to then have their army behind the hill crush them, knowing it's going to kill their own force. In archery training -- it's not just in the movie "Braveheart", but it's historical cases of where different armies in Japan, in Europe proper, in Africa, you know, the Egyptians would fire on their own troops to kill some of the other troops.

That's an idea -- collateral damage. And it's nothing to the war-planners running our country for the big banks to mail out some anthrax and kill some people. It's nothing for them to kill kids now. To kill a million, two Iraqis as I said. And we better realize that what's done to the Iraqis will be done to us. You reap what you sow. Dr. Boyle, can you speak to that idea and then plug your book?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Well, sure. I went to the University of Chicago with all these neoconservatives -- Wolfowitz was there, Chalabi, Khalilzad, Shulsky -- all the rest of them. They were getting their PhDs, and I was getting my undergraduate degree, later got my PhD from Harvard.

I went through the exact same program that produced all these neocons -- the political science department, Leo Strauss, the godfather of the neocons. His mentor and sponsor in Germany was Professor Carl Schmitt, who went on to become the most notorious Nazi law professor of that benighted era, and justified every hideous atrocity the Nazis inflicted on anyone, including the Jews.

ALEX JONES: And now his [intellectual] grandchildren are Alberto Gonzales, and the current Attorney General Mukasey, and John Yoo.

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: That's correct. We have to understand Alex, that -- and they tried to train me to become one of these people, and I --

ALEX JONES: Don't you have the special PhD, they only give one a year, from Harvard? Don't you have the Kissinger PhD?

FRANCIS A. BOYLE: Yeah, I went through the same program that Kissinger did. Indeed, at the Center for International Affairs, they gave me Kissinger's old office. His file cabinets were sitting there when I moved in.

But, the point is, we have to understand these neoconservatives, then, are in fact neo-Nazis. And this is a neo-Nazi mentality that has taken over our government. And these are the people making these decisions. And that, then, gets back to why they have no problem unleashing an anthrax attack on the American people and Congress. Indeed, they're anti-Democratic.

ALEX JONES: Professor Boyle, I can go into overdrive on this radio show, but I don't want to keep you. The show's over in one minute. But I want to extend the show 10 minutes commercial-free, just for the internet streams. But that's hundreds of thousands listening on the internet and tens of thousands later, spread out on video. Can you do ten more minutes right now, just so you can finish this statement?


ALEX JONES: OK, we're going to go into overdrive. I want to thank the Genesis network and all the affiliates. If you go to InfoWars.com, only on those audio streams, and PrisonPlanet.tv on the video, we're going to continue with an addendum.

It's not just the anthrax attacks, but who they are. The mindset that allows them to engage in this type of behavior. And so again, you need to go to one place, InfoWars.com, to click on those streams right now with Dr. Boyle. Don't forget, my new film "Fabled Enemies" that I produced, that Jason Burmas has directed -- you can pre-order it now. It comes out in 10 days, InfoWars.com as well. Great job everybody. Stay with us. InfoWars.com.

[The interview continues, but this is all I have in the form of a written transcript -- the rest of the interview can be heard on the YouTube videos.]

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© 2008 by The Alex Jones show and Francis Boyle; partial rush transcript by Pam Rotella